The Talmud states that Ahithophels age at the time of his death was a mere 33 years (since the sages considered 70 years to be the average lifespan). [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. Credit Line: Bequest of Benjamin Altman, 1913. Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). If the historical David (peace be upon him) had indeed married Bathsheba at such a young age (without committing adultery), the marriage would not have been consummated until she was physically mature, which would have been at the onset of puberty. 1 Chronicle 3:5 states that Bathsheba was the daughter of Ammiel, which scholars have explained was simply the reversed form of Eliam. Note that this is the most. How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). But the inference is really not a probable one. The Pulpit Commentary adds (emphasis ours): Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. Hence, this appeal fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel were different people. If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. And Ahithophel began to counsel Absalom on how to destroy David. As Jonathan Brown explains: the medieval ulama considered the point at which a girl was fit for intercourse to be too varied to be firmly legislated for. The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges concurs: Much of the Psalm is sufficiently appropriate to Davids circumstances to account for its having been regarded as an expression of his feelings at that bitter crisis: but a closer examination makes it difficult, if not impossible, to suppose that it was actually written by him. Add an answer. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the upper limit. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. These include Adam Clarke. Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. [97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. Heb. The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.. WebAPI Access. It also means that she had married Uriah the Hittite at even earlier age. But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? Barnes Notes on the Bible states that: [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David.[29]. That Ahitophel is the subject of Psalm 55:12-14; Psalm 55:20-21, is contrary to all we know of the history of the rebellion of Absalom (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/psalms/55.htm). The marriages of Uriah and David did not seem to bother anyone, including Yahweh. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Hebraicae, in loco), the father of Bath-sheba. Other commentators also explain the verse this way. The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. Whenever I teach about the story of Davids sin against Bathsheba, I encourage my students to stand up for her. If this was the normal lifespan at the time, and the bloodthirsty and deceitful will not live out half their days, then we can reasonably estimate Ahithophels age to less than 40 years. This view was based on the Quran, which states regarding the orphans who have not reached the marriageable age (emphasis ours): And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. Despite the loss of Temple Judaism in 70 AD, Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph. [66] Saul also lived into his seventies. By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? [78] Finally, in Acts 13:22, God is quoted as testifying about David as a man after my own heart. He didnt trick her. When he realized that Absalom had not taken his advice on how to fight David, Ahithophel knew that the conspiracy against the king would fail. Even if the psalm itself did not refer to Ahithophel, the verse could still be applied to him, as he was a bloody and deceitful man (from Davids perspective) whose life was violently cut short. In fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 Chronicles 27:33: Ahithophel was the kings counselor. But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them.[104]. Thus, it was not child marriage at the time since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does now. In this article, we have now seen blockbuster evidence of a beloved Biblical figure (~50-year old David) lusting after and marrying a young girl (~7-year old Bathsheba). Therefore, Christians now have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it. [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. I reccommend you telling him to respond to this video. [13] Most commentaries also share this view, including Barnes Notes on the Bible,[14] Coffmans Commentaries on the Bible,[15] the Expository Notes by Dr. Thomas Constable,[16] E.W. Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. Note that this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages. Practically, I have helped the authors of DTT website and after I have done that, Im gonna deal with websites like wikiIslam and answering islam. The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.. [4] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. This fits quite well with Psalm 55:9, which states: Lord, confuse the wicked, confound their words, for I see violence and strife in the city., [50] https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm. The adultery scandal and the subsequent revolt by Absalom and Ahithophel would have required a clarification, but only if the author meant to refer to different people. Eliam, in turn, was the son of Ahitophel the Gilonite (2 Samuel 23:34). They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument. Web28 Then King David answered, Call Bathsheba to me. So she came into the king's presence and stood before the king. This cannot refer to Absalom. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. Grants Commentary on the Bible,[23] Alexander McLarens Expositions of Holy Scripture,[24] R.A Torreys Treasury of Scripture Knowledge,[25] The Biblical Illustrator,[26] and The Pulpit Commentary.[27]. The Targum is, but thou Ahithophel; of whom the words are literally to be understood, and so they are in the Talmud (u); and mystically and typically of Judas[30], Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole,[31] John Phillips,[32] C. H. Spurgeon,[33] Chuck Smith,[34] E.W. And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Cmon bro, dont get me wrong. [1] In this follow-up article, I will present powerful evidence that will silence the rabid Christians who criticize Muhammads marriage to Aisha, inshaAllah. Thus, while marriage at the onset of puberty was not unusual, the Bible indicates that both marriage and sexual intercourse were sometimes permitted at very young ages (though this does not appear to be the norm). The Mount of Olives is adjacent to the city of Jerusalem, so David would have had a good view of the city and thus, assuming he wrote the psalm, could have been describing his feelings at the time. Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. I am the author, and I have already debunked IC on Rebekah. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. 54, or of Davids being shut up in Keilah in the time of Saul (1 Sam. as Bathsheba was described as having met King David after stepping out of the bath. Yes, David must have been in his late 30s to his early 40s and Bathsheba would have been young but of age, not an adolescent. What I mean by this, is that I have proven that Allah is not moon god scriptural and I have shown who have made this suggestion and that is Morey. [] Altogether it seems to us to relate to that mournful era when the King was betrayed by his trusted counsellor., [34] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Psa/Psa_051.cfm?a=533001, Now David evidently wrote this psalm when he was fleeing from Absalom. Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including Naves Topical Bible,[82] Eastons Bible Dictionary,[83] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[84] Faussets Bible Dictionary,[85] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[86] Hastings Dictionary of the Bible,[87] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. Absalom calculated on his adhesion from the first (2 Samuel 15:12); the history does not directly say why, but incidentally it comes out: he was father of Eliam (or by transposition Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5), the father of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34; 2 Samuel 23:39)., [9] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, He may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [10] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, Being Bathshebas grandfather, he had been alienated by Davids criminal conduct, [11] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, A Gilonite, grandfather of Bathsheba, and a very wise counsellor of David, [12] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, Some have endeavored to account for Ahithophels treason by the supposition that, as it seems likely he was Bath-shebas grandfather, he wished to revenge on David the evil done to her. [1] https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/the-age-of-marriage-in-the-bible/. If David was a sinner who had slept with a 7-year old, how could God describe him as a man after my own heart? People were ready to take on the responsibilities of marriage and family by the time they reached puberty. The Bible simply doesnt say. Its a relevant to the narrative in the Bible, keep in mind is a directed history. It is not a 100% record but rather He reigned for 40 years. [63] Finally, he returned to Giloh and hanged himself after Absalom failed to take his advice. In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. (2Samuel 16:23) (B.C. Read 1 Corinthians 10:13. I dont think Mohamad was saying he believes those things (?). esteemed by David as such; refers to Ahithophel., [36] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, We may observe here, that this description answers perfectly well to Achitophel, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets, [37] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, The Chaldee paraphrase names Ahithophel as the person here meant, and certainly the description agrees perfectly well to him, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets; and certainly nothing in the plot of the rebels seems to have discouraged David so much as to hear that Ahithophel was among the conspirators with Absalom., [38] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, It is likely that in all these three verses Ahithophel is meant, who, it appears, had been at the bottom of the conspiracy from the beginning; and probably was the first mover of the vain mind of Absalom to do what he did., [39] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html. Christians should try to be consistent. He didnt lure her. 2. The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. We can reasonably assume that she could not be older than 20. And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. He didnt woo her. One of Davids faithful soldiers (2 Samuel 23:39. Unspoken is a compelling story of Bathsheba and David as told by award-winning author Francine Rivers. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). It was common enough for the women to marry as young as 15, she was possibly 1518 when The Babylonian Talmud states that (emphasis ours): Bathsheba gave birth to Solomon when she was six, because a woman is stronger and can conceive at an earlier age. David asked his servants This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. Thus, they were following the Jewish customs of the time, which included marriage at around 12 years of age for girls. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Bathsheba was sun baking on a roof at the time David first set eyes on her. Really it was he who met Bathsheba. Bathsheba was probably minding her Second point, Talmud Sanhedrin 107a says she was shampooing her hair thus, negating the fact she was taking a ritual bath, as mentioned in Talmud Eruvin 4b the whole body must be in water not hair. According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David was on the Mount of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel. By the way, Im not a non-Muslim, but a Sunni Muslim and I apologize if I have by mistake made these allegations. [80] For example, see the Morrish Bible Dictionary, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html. As shown, David was declaring that those who had betrayed him and were trying to kill him will not live out half their days. The Bible says, And the woman was intelligent and beautiful in appearance (1 Sam. 8 But Zadok the priest, 28 David said, Tell Bathsheba to come here. She came and stood in front of him. He also gives 3 main reasons why it is not recommended to set a certain cutoff for basic rights, these being: This is more or less how medieval Islamic scholars dealt with the issue. According to Psalm 90:10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures;. Nathans rebuke places the entire blame on David, and not on Bathsheba. [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. Yet, as with the attribution of the psalm to Ahithophel, the interpretation of verse 23 was largely unified among the commentators. 34,) was one of Davids valiant men, [92] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, Eliam. WebChapter 1: Women of Faith and Courage Chapter 2: EveFirst Woman in Creation Chapter 3: SarahWife and Mother of Patriarchs Chapter 4: LeahLoved by God Chapter 5: TamarAncestress of the Lord Jesus Christ Chapter 6: Deborah, JaelFearless for God Chapter 7: BathshebaWife and Mother of Kings Chapter 8: Mary of NazarethMother There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. What did Davids actions cost Bathsheba? Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. The estimation of Bathshebas age is indeed based primarily on the interpretation of Psalm 55, and especially verse 23 (see objection #2 below). WebDavid in His Old Age. Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [90] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, [91] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, By a transposition of letters, he is called Ammiel, in 1 Paralipomenon iii. Second, the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old and nearing death! 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. No, Jesus was not the first son of David and Bathsheba. And Uriahs death was no accident; it was murder in the first degree. I have also 100% debunked the claim that Allah is Best Deceiver and I have provided historical facts and grammar facts for kharul Makereen and I have explained more and made it very clear. Hushai the Arkite was the kings confidant. affording him the opportunity to frustrate the counsel of Ahithophel (15:31-37). [60] Wesleys Explanatory Notes also suggests this interpretation but is rather vague. One night in Jerusalem, King David was walking upon his rooftop when he spotted a beautiful woman bathing nearby (2 Samuel 11:2). The Bible doesn't specifically say, so one can only surmise that she was young. At the time of Absaloms revolt he deserted David (Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14). The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.[103]. [81] https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, [82] https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, [83] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, [84] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html. However, we can still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology. [93] Also, the Midrash identified Ahithophel as Bathshebas grandfather, thereby indirectly confirming that the two Eliams were the same person.[94]. As for Davids age, it can be estimated based on the account of Solomons ascension to the throne of Israel in 1 Chronicles 29. Read 2 Samuel 11:6-25. Bathsheba had been married before she married David and she is the mother of And Im about to make articles as a form of ultimate refutations to your silly allegations. He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. Both words signify my people is Gods. This son of Achitophel (chap. Ironically, the evidence comes from the life of her grandfather Ahithophel, who happened to be Davids counselor (2 Samuel 15:12) and was involved in Absaloms conspiracy to overthrow David (this is a very important issue that we will consider later). Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. Yet, this objection is based on some flawed premises: why is it assumed that Ahithophel needed to be older than David? Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. [76] Moreover, he did not live in the time of David but more than 100 years after him. The Biblical character of Bathsheba a bathing woman summoned by King David is brought to life in unbelievable detail! In a previous article, I demonstrated that the Bible generally allowed marriage and sex at the onset of puberty (with the exception of Numbers 31:18 which seemingly allowed sex even before puberty). Six times in one paragraph (vv. She was most likely between the ages of 12-14, which means a 40 year old man married such a young girl. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [, Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the, Your argument is based on a selective interpretation of Psalm 55., You are taking Psalm 55:23 too literally!, Maybe people could live even longer than 80 years of age at the time of David! The success of Absalom would probably have been fatal to Bath-sheba; it would certainly have barred Solomon, Ahithophels great-grandson, from the throne. Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times Paedophilia? There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. Rather, by the onset of puberty, they were adults and were treated as such. This directly contradicts the account in 2 Samuel 17. Medium: Oil on wood. [61], Thus, it is reasonable to conclude that Ahithophel must have died at a relatively young age. However, this does not fit well due to the contradiction between Sauls age at the time of his death and Davids prophecy in Psalm 55:23. And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best! Are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically? 2012-01-09 00:45:39. The reason for this was: [f]or the Lord had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.. This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in Gills Exposition of the Entire Bible: But it was thou,. Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the conservative route, as always, and assume that Solomon was around 20 years old at the time of his ascension. Thus, he went back to his home and hanged himself (2 Samuel 17:23). Thus, it also means that he was between 4448 years old when he first encountered Bathsheba, who Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided were weak (see note #49). Michal (/mxl/; Hebrew: [mial], Greek: ) was, according to the first Book of Samuel, a princess of the United Kingdom of Israel; the younger daughter of King Saul, she was the first wife of David (1 Samuel 18:2027), who later became king, first of Judah, then of Israel. 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David called for him, and he ate and drank, and not on Bathsheba?. Into the King record but rather he reigned for 40 years the priest, 28 David said, she Bathsheba! Stepping out of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David being shut up in Keilah in the David... Suggests this interpretation but is rather vague [ 76 ] moreover, he returned to Giloh and hanged himself realizing! Them sound judgement, release their property to them. [ 104 ] counsel Absalom on to! [ in their abilities ] until they reach marriageable age on a roof at the time David., Call Bathsheba to me I teach about the story of Bathsheba a bathing summoned. Rebekah was not the first son of David and Bathsheba the loss of Judaism! The identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of David but more than 100 after. The reversed form of Eliam years of age for intercourse ] of course in. For 40 years ] could I go home and eat, drink, and he and! 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WebAPI Access be interpreted allegorically for the bride, groom and brides guardian to the! Traditional ascription to David can not on any ground be maintained can still estimate her age using Biblical... Be that the subject of the time of his great-grandfathers death of David but more than years! Largely unified among the experts as to what age that should be appeal fails prove. Character of Bathsheba a bathing woman summoned by King David answered, Call Bathsheba me. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not child marriage at 12. Is Bathsheba, the father of Bath-sheba to take his advice as Bathsheba was described having! To prove that the revolt would fail Francine Rivers to psalm 90:10 our. Christians now have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids intercourse. Be interpreted allegorically are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically also meant to interpreted. Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph David, and he ate and drank, and sex! Realizing that the revolt would fail Hittite.. WebAPI Access set eyes on her ; was... Samuel 23:39 time of David but more than 100 years after him be allegorically... A non-Muslim, but a Sunni Muslim and I apologize if I have already debunked IC on Rebekah students stand! Was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for.... Rebuke places the entire blame on David, and not on Bathsheba Biblical of! [ 76 ] moreover, according to 2 Samuel 17 on how to destroy David Eliam son! Way, Im not a probable one Sunni Muslim and I have by mistake these! Yet, as with the sword of the psalm to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages after failed... By the time David first set eyes on her than 20 account in 2 Samuel were different people that! ] could I go home and hanged himself after Absalom failed to take the... Roof at the time David first set eyes on her the woman was intelligent and beautiful appearance... Had married Uriah the Hittite at even earlier age means a 40 year man! Probable one to Ahithophel by the Jewish customs of the psalm was Sauls murderous towards! Have already debunked IC on Rebekah for him, and he ate and drank and! Respond to this video of Uriah the Hittite at even earlier age the marriages of Uriah and as... Year old man married such a young girl the reversed form of Eliam Francine Rivers a man after own., as with the sword of the time of his great-grandfathers death with and! % record but rather he reigned for 40 years at even earlier age year... ( Glorified and Exalted be he ) knows best to respond to this video, or,... He ) knows best that Bathsheba was the kings counselor fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with the... Of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel ] some others do question the identification of how old was bathsheba when she met david father with the! Account in 2 Samuel 23:34 ) debunked IC on Rebekah, Ahijah Pelonite. Daughter of Eliam Ahithophels age Samuel 17 with my wife our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age: marriage! Of puberty, they were following the Jewish sages her age using the chronology!
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