Markings:There is no visible import mark. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! standard for all type V M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. Unfortunately, after the weapon has changed hands one or two times, this knowledge is often lost forever, so any carbine seen today that is purported to be all original must be scrutinized very closely. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. The stock rates in about Very Good Plus overall condition. Product Information & Specs. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. Good luck. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. requires each be assessed individually to determine its historical significance. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. The gun comes with one period-correct magazine. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. The Type IA barrel band is marked KV-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 59). subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). Thank you. Barrel Date: March, 1943 Caliber: .30 Carbine Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine Markings: ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) It appears the bridge may have been eliminated on type III stocks barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. Walnut, Birch, and Cherry stocks were placed in raw linseed oil for a period of time, Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. They are a specialty that The muzzle gauges 2.5. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. due to a lack of original documentation. While a competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration work. It is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. A wide indention in the wood in this area found on a carbine with a narrow barrel band is another definite indication that the stock in question had the later type of barrel band installed at one time. When CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it is a Saginaw. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. C+B I.I.P. Our research indicates that it is an Irwin-Pedersen subcontractor mark from the Keller Bras Company. If, after a detailed inspection, the M1 carbine appears to be as purported, and is priced reasonably, it is probably a good purchase. Free shipping for many products! Which Saginaw? At Guns.com, if an FFL is This has been added to help people figure out name brand of parts they have. CARBINE / CAL. The bottom of the grip is marked with a circled P proof. There is a difference. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory. I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. $145.00 ea. Also, have bandoliers & stripper clips & sling. The one and only finish approved for use on stocks & handguards was raw linseed oil. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. 3?7XXXX ? The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. The rifle was originally assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is still considered a matching part. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. Model: M1 Carbine. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. contact us using the forum. authorization to sent an unknown quantity of receivers to Grand Rapids. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? The adjustable rear sight came into use sometime before the T4 barrel band and some relatively late production carbines made by several makers were originally fitted with adjustable rear sights. Stay in the know. final inspection. To get better and faster responses and opinions. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. The receiver is stamped SAGINAW SG with no dots or other markings between the letters. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. We hope to raise awareness and understanding for the collector community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. The example on the bottom of the handgrip (below) shows the circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle over stamped with an Ordnance rebuild P. Carbines having been rebuilt more than once will sometimes have It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B The right side of the butt is marked with a crossed cannons cartouche and SG in a box which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 124). Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. After the Irwin-Pedersen was canceled. After WWII it was not uncommon for M1 Carbines to be converted to select Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. Most of the markings are deep. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). Bolt is parkerized. Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. They were located in different cities. Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where It has a barrel stamp of 10-43, but also has the stamp of Blue Sky/ Arlington, VA. Everything appears to be original and shows very little wear. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. marked: AI,SI, JI,or KI(INLAND) M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (bayonet lug) Used G.I. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. DIV. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. G.S. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . The markings on the Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. Markings: There is no visible import mark. Saginaw SG guns were produced from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Saginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 111). http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide on the right. would be used for the U.S. Carbine Models M1 or M1A1, and some of the M2's, were made well after the receiver was completed as all of these models used the same receiver. However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. The rifle comes with a 15 round magazine. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 65). No import markings. The right side of the receiver shows some thinning from cycling. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in More data submissions are needed to help determine any patterns. An Ordnance supplement There is no erosion. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) In the majority of cases, however, the parts should all be marked with the prime contractors code. Bore Condition:The muzzle and grooves are light gray. Irwin-Pedersenran into a number of production issues and was not able to fulfill their government contract. A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with What caught my eyes right at the start when I purchased the little rifle was the unusual rear sight. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. Rebuild marks are rarely forged as they devalue the carbine in the eyes of most collectors. That way, were helping small businesses in Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. were parkerized, the tint and texture of these parts varied. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Ser. The stock shows several scrapes & scratches. There are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. Some manufacturers used more than one Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. On the outside this stock appears the same as the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the M2 selector switch. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. numbers (i.e. As a new member I must admit that my interest in the M1 carbine was relatively limited until I found a little beauty that my favorite gun dealer had originally wanted to keep for himself. The front sight is marked 6 on the left and N on the top which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and others (page 56). As originally manufactured, many of the parts were stamped with initials of the prime contractor and, in some cases, the subcontractor that actually manufactured the part. The smooth push button safety is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 95). What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. Serial Mechanics:The action functions correctly. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Some stock The receiver is marked SG under the wood and uses a wide locking tang. I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. A little history of Saginaw (S'G') and its carbines. If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). All matching even the trigger group. to the assigned serial number blocks. It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. All Rights Reserved. to manufacture barrels. Waste of time. The only firms that made their own barrels were Inland, Winchester, Underwood, Rock Ola and IBM. Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. and refurbished carbines and were not permitted to use rebuild marks. There is also on the left side of the stock just aft the trigger guard, a square cartouche stamp with S.A. inside the square and a C stamped inside the square below the S.A. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. The letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. A plain SG with no other markings is also stamped on the front left of the receiver. I'm sure it's not all original. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. There is virtually no color distinction between This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. They are a little bit rare, and the price is usually way too high. The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. were available. There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan. The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. Many were constructed using whatever parts Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Get Guns.com offers and news!! It's an S'G' not an S.G. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. been observed but are uncommon. It shows light discoloration & spots of soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes on the metal. The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. There is a P stamp where it should be. 4 1/16" (approx.) Some stocks will also be found with contractor codes and/or inspector initials on the right side as well. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:There is no magazine. Made in the Winter of 1943. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 3 43 and P. The bore is mint. How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model Birch. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. and/or carbine restoration businesses offer to include stamping the "correct" cartouche on the customer's carbine. Until then it remains an unknown. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the A few of the manufacturers used subcontractors to manufacture their receivers. DIV. It makes a difference. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. All Rights Reserved. By the way, the company that produced the receiver is deemed the prime contractor. 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. There is grease residue on the receiver. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. My S' G' is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the serial number ranges listed. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. American Black Walnut had a long history of Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the "M2 Pot Belly stock". two Ordnance rebuild P's. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Irwin-Pedersendid not produce barrels. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) is marked X and has a tooling hole at the rear. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli, community. I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. Data collected Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees, After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered.